WEBVTT

00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:07.000 This is the done of everything. book circle call for Thursday, April 20, eighth.

00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:20.000 We're working on chapter 2 I know judy Judy says she should be able to make the last half hour on the call, I think, or maybe half an hour.

00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:32.000 I'm not sure when now they think about it I just put the link to Google docs in the chat.

00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:39.000 So if You're If you're so inclined it would be awesome to to have you typing along with me.

00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:50.000 We had an interesting conversation on tuesday's call about just being in the moment, and just talking without all the background overhead of of notes and stuff.

00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:56.000 So I we didn't come up with it I it's a conundrum right

00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.000 It. It would be cool if everybody can kind of just be in the moment and and conversation.

00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:04.000 But then you don't really save much conversely you know it'd be nice to save lots of stuff.

00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:22.000 But then you're not quite in the conversation as much where I ended up with that is, i'm gonna keep doing note notes, documents, and and maybe I I've liked I like sharing the notes talking about and screen sharing

00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:34.000 but then it's distracting for enough people I think I'm. i'm not gonna i'm gonna try not to do that, and maybe next time I what I thought was was I would have the zoom call and then

00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:45.000 separately a Vnc. window sharing the the the note stock for people who wanted who can stand the bandwidth of that of those things up, anyway?

00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:52.000 The other thing is, I we came up with a really good idea on the on the Tuesday call wasn't mine.

00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:59.000 It was a couple of other people coming into the call with kind of the thing that you want to talk about.

00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:09.000 About chapter 2 is is maybe a good way to kind of do check-ins, and also a way to kind of get the the topics into the the room.

00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:18.000 And then talk about chapter 2 chapter, 2 primarily, and then maybe the book a little bit more at large, and then stuff related to the book.

00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:34.000 You know it's it's easy to it's easy to kind of get off the track, and and there were people who really wanted to be pretty close to the text, because it's a book club while at the same

00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:46.000 time, also recognizing that I I we ended up deciding that you know you kind of want half and half you want to do some pretty close reading of the text. and then you want to have maybe a rich kind of more bubbly conversation about what

00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:54.000 came up because of the the text. and with that I think i'll get out of the way.

00:02:54.000 --> 00:03:01.000 So origins of inequality. we sell right on wicked liberty.

00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:09.000 We could. liberty,

00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:26.000 I like this chapter a lot I actually pee so i've been posting my little underlings in this wiki, which doesn't, but I think we should find a way to publish more of that to make it available because I've been I take

00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:38.000 this from close the few weeks ago, when clubs just said here this sentence, and i'm like, yeah, I just read that I just don't blame it since this afternoon.

00:03:38.000 --> 00:04:01.000 Do you mean more than so theoretically they're on a web page where's that located You're you're the the wiki web page is at this url

00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:06.000 And then there's never navigation links on the homepage.

00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:14.000 But sometimes you have to click all pages and look for so there's a page.

00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:18.000 If you click all pages and then scroll down to reflections underline passages.

00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:26.000 Wla. that's bills underlings yeah I think I should probably put them in the root.

00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:30.000 I mean it's all we have so wiki work to do.

00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:39.000 But I found it. but i've been just trying to I also just just throwing in here.

00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:48.000 If you if you're a kindle person and you're highlighting your highlights all pop up on meet Amazon dot com.

00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:52.000 Hmm. I think I guess that kind of happens with good reads too.

00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:59.000 I don't use good reads, anyway. Sorry Bill no no I kinda hey?

00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:09.000 I really like this chapter. it's a good chapter yeah and I think mostly because it really pokes that for me.

00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:16.000 They end with this little statement about. let me think. I can just get the last sentence which I underlined.

00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:22.000 It. So what are the sort of people we like to imagine as well and innocent are free of rulers. governments?

00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:38.000 We are not because they lack imagination but except because they're more imaginative than we are, and I just for me reading this book is.

00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:52.000 I try to read it that way about being stimulated by asking questions about about you know things like I think I really I'm, i'm enjoying the way they just poke at that.

00:05:52.000 --> 00:06:02.000 So without the fact checking everything i'm just for me That's a feeling I get from reading it.

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:10.000 So the they this underlings are really really good i've been doing that.

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:21.000 Yeah, I I kinda like the context. Contact civilization called russell's work.

00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:29.000 So explaining that discourse on the origin of the inequality among mankind was written on it for print.

00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:44.000 Essay competition in France, and the fact that, as you, as well, the brutally say, Russell was busy sleeping his way in in into influence.

00:06:44.000 --> 00:07:05.000 I but one of the things that kind of struck me because I i'm a bit of a history in there, and I've done a lot of study of what was going on in seventeenth century England and also in the interaction

00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:10.000 between what was happening in England, what was happening in the North American colonies.

00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:27.000 At the same time, any kind of interests me that this chapter is all about stuff that was being debated at about 17 in the seventies in France.

00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:46.000 Yeah, I look at it and go well. Why have they picked debates going on in in, in in the absolutist monarchy of France as a particular team in the 1750 S.

00:07:46.000 --> 00:08:04.000 I mean there's, a there's a section heading call in which we show how Europeans learn from native Americans about the connection between reason, debate, personal freedoms, and the refusal of arbitrary power that's

00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:09.000 one of that big, big, big big letter section addings towards the end of the chapter.

00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:12.000 , I I kind of look at it and go. Yeah.

00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:20.000 But the kind of those issues we all worked out in real life.

00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:35.000 In seventeenth century England, during civil wars, and leading up to the execution of a king having his head removed, and January the thirteenth, thirtieth, 1,649.

00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:51.000 When it actually executed the king put the thing on trial 3 days and chopped the guy's head off, and i'm going well, hey? An indigenous debate in 1750 Yeah, But what about the fact, that in

00:08:51.000 --> 00:09:09.000 England. They did that to the king in 1,749, and also the the kind of column is that we found it in America. We're radically rethinking all these things in the seventeenth century So you

00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.000 look at this thinking. Well hang on looking at 1,750.

00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:15.000 France is a bit kind of you're bit like hey?

00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:25.000 Guys, because all of this stuff has been worked out in a very powerful way amongst the English, and they remote North American colonies a century before.

00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:30.000 Why are you not paying attention to that? Why are we talking about?

00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:46.000 What was done on 1750 France It seems to be that that was a much more powerful critique of absolute monarchy to take the king's head off after a civil war, then debating things in the 3 sales in

00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:53.000 France. so that's my kind of maybe I didn't.

00:09:53.000 --> 00:10:08.000 Maybe I don't understand it Well, but as I understood it one of the points of bringing up Russell was saying that even though it was incidental at the time, it ended up being a mind virus that spread to the

00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:15.000 the intellectuals. And then somebody on the Tuesday call, said the the intellectuals, who are too lazy to really critique it.

00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:21.000 And then into you know it just. It was a mind, whereas that has taken over and it still exists with us today.

00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:37.000 I think that's right but that that's amongst eighteenth century enlightenment, thinkers yeah who are kind of intellectuals and academics, whereas if you're looking at things on the ground in

00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:52.000 real action. The English had a sort of modern state, and the scientific method up and running by the year 1,700 a half a century before before this stuff was going on and they were operating it.

00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:57.000 But they didn't bother to debate it or or internalize about it.

00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:09.000 I think that is much more powerful, then, it being a kind of subject of academic debate. And I think that kind of neglected that is a bit interesting.

00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:15.000 So. So that seems to be the far more important, far more powerful.

00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:20.000 Yeah, awesome. wonder what the information had to do with this?

00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:25.000 Here you have this 30 year war from 1618 to 1648

00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:44.000 That most precipitated by you know the Martin Luther Reformation here, and the breaking of power from a centralized woman Catholic Church which at the time you know what so powerful that no one in

00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:48.000 the world family could marry without permission from the both. right.

00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:55.000 So the influence is centralized. influence over the entire European leadership.

00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:01.000 Boss was an amazing phenomena, basically a perpetuation of the Roman Empire.

00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:14.000 You know the sistocracy and and I think we fully understand the the absolute power that the Church had over the entire European the sphere.

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:30.000 So, Martin Luther cool that just by creating a paradigm shift in the way that the the religious understanding of you know of.

00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:44.000 The the the Church was a return to new testament thinking basically what he was saying was saying. Hey, you know what the New Testament really is saying here's what you guys are doing. it's a total contradiction So

00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:52.000 it had come into a power play. so I wonder how how much?

00:12:52.000 --> 00:13:02.000 What. But I find that challenging here is while we are focusing on the power structures.

00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:10.000 With him Is civilization within a culture there's also a dynamic between cultures right?

00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:22.000 So so the Europeans, for some reason have more focused on developing tools of warfare.

00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:36.000 Right have had the most advanced weaponry I mean the Chinese developed gunpowder long before the Europeans, but thought it was too violent a means of warfare, you know, to be deployed in war as the

00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:42.000 Europeans were totally excited about having, you know a better way to pull each other up instantly. Right?

00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:48.000 I mean the first thing that came. So So what is the collective mindset?

00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:58.000 Right that tribes a a civilization, a cope, no 2 to to behave and to interact with him.

00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:14.000 The the the world of within a global set of of other cultures where the Europeans, for some reason, had this sense of superiority entitlement.

00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:22.000 You know, when I take all sort of thing where they encountered vastly superior civilizations.

00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:28.000 When you think about India or China at the time spiritually, fondly advanced.

00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:43.000 But yet defenseless, because without this focus on weaponry, because when you you really have to look at this from a global perspective, you know, how do you, being interacted globally with just incomprehensible in

00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:50.000 hindsight right I mean whether that's the the Inca or the American Indians, or India or China.

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:56.000 I mean the the the havoc that the European self-rect across the world.

00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:01.000 This is the plumber and x one and extortion.

00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:08.000 It's just incomprehensible to know what's in the head that that that makes that possible.

00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:13.000 Oh, one of the things that class that I think is very significant, as you see.

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:22.000 If you look at the English traders, the British trade is in India during the eighteenth century.

00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:37.000 They turned up and learned to be courtiers. You know it was in the eighteenth century the the the English guys that turned up fell in love with India, and they often have Indian wives.

00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:45.000 They learn the languages, and they also uncovered the history of India, which the Indians didn't know about like they.

00:15:45.000 --> 00:16:00.000 They discover the connections between sanskrit and Greek, Latin, and and they did all this how she and love at the place that they wonder when it's weird transition into the nineteenth century, where they turn themselves

00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:05.000 into a kind of cost on top of the car system but in the eighteenth century.

00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:23.000 They weren't like that so it what you know when a transition which is really interesting, and I think people kind of negotiate that, and in it to a logic state courtes when he turned up in mexico when who's

00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:35.000 the guy that Can't turn up in need certainly when you turn up in Mexico he walked into the middle of a civil war, because the the Aztecs had only been the dominant power of Mexico

00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:50.000 for a 100 years, when court has arrived and they were doing, they were capturing prisoners of war, and sacrifice them on top of pyramids with obsidian blades, and tearing their hearts out doing all terrible

00:16:50.000 --> 00:17:08.000 things and quarters defeated them. by walk into the middle of a civil war where the other people who hated them used Cortez to overthrow It's it's you know that's actually the history the likewise in

00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:17.000 India. the the Indian powers who were each other's throats, and also in the kind of civil war they thought they could use.

00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:24.000 The Europeans to get a military edge over their enemies in in year.

00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:34.000 I tried to use the the Europeans to fight each other, not realizing that that was gonna end up with the Europeans being in charge of the place.

00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:52.000 So, in other words, to a large extent it was the disunity within those civilizations on a super wall, and the people locally thought they could exploit the Europeans powers in their own fights, and didn't realize that it was

00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.000 a dangerous thing to do, because it would end up with the Europeans dominating them.

00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:04.000 So they fed into a trap, but the big, disunited and flying each other, thinking they could be exploit.

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:07.000 The Europeans, not realizing the Europeans are going to out with them.

00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.000 So that's what that's what happened so another way of looking at.

00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:19.000 This is the British when they came to China, but deeply interested in getting silk and tea with those with the tool.

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:27.000 Absolutely absolutely no interest in in in anything that the British have to trade.

00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:34.000 So they didn't really want to give up that much silver, right?

00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:47.000 So instead the they forced the bridge to pay in silver bullion,

00:18:47.000 --> 00:19:00.000 So the British meant to India, you know, calling opioids and they went to to China with the opioids and sold opioids, and and then turn that into Silicon T.

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:12.000 And back to Britain with it. So they created a very profitable triage, and invented Chinese, and decided that they have a serious truck problem here and try to to stop that.

00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.000 And the Emperor at the time for the general in charge.

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:24.000 Now to to finish this structure, and 5 to spend and and push back on the British that was altered into the box.

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:31.000 Civil war which subdued the Chinese, enforce the open war.

00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:40.000 Yeah. So So that's not so be 9, right?

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.000 I mean that has no no it's it's the equivalent.

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:51.000 No, I'm. not saying it. that was benite that was the equivalent of the meddling cartel having better weapons of the Us.

00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:56.000 State. Yeah, to first the Americans into buying coca from them.

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:03.000 You can go to European cities to go to Marseilles, you know, and you see plush.

00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.000 You go to port you would have Portugal, Lisbon.

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.000 You see enormous wells, nineteenth century wealth on display.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:27.000 You see obscene wealth on display? No. in at the at the cope, at the Vatican envelope scene, collection of wealth that was exploited from the the colonies so to, speak.

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:40.000 So I understand what you're saying but I don't think that really reflects what Europeans have been totally engaging here, which is plunder and mayhem across the world to extract to extract value.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:55.000 I mean, for example, I was in France and of what didn't even realize that of insulin will see. Oh, man must say, and and I was just like stunt because they would sail to to the African coast not the ship full of

00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:04.000 slice shipping to the Americas, you know, traded in for tobacco and and cotton and then ship that to England and distributed.

00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:13.000 So they became wealthy beyond belief by the straight of between slaves, and then the agricultural products from from the Americans.

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:22.000 So. So there is a a cynical collaboration that happens at the business level between the Europeans.

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:28.000 Whether it's the portuguese of spaniards the French, the British, everybody in it.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:33.000 That that that costs amazing habog!

00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:42.000 And you have to think what is the mindset that that lifestyle is this religion most of the Christianity, I mean.

00:21:42.000 --> 00:22:05.000 How do we, I think I think it's actually success that drove in the the characteristic of that you know acquisitional very assertive colonial and repacious taking everything that mindset is it it i'm gonna

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:15.000 use the phrase again. it's kind of like a mind virus once once that starts happening in a little small scale.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:22.000 The people who are more cultured are are like food for that.

00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:29.000 That virus. So I think just the success of that approach meant that you know they would.

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:37.000 They would grow faster and and dig into the other cultures around the world and take over

00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:49.000 So I it's I I like your question I like the way it's like. So you know so like you know you're a civilized person or a barbarian or something like that what what comes into your mind to go

00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:51.000 you know i'm going to be a slavery today i'm going.

00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:59.000 I'm just going to take other people's stuff and their lives, and i'm going to accrue to to to me and my buds right.

00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:03.000 But once that gets going once it ignites, it keeps going.

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.000 It keeps building, I think, and it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:17.000 I mean Africans were slit, enslaving each other and and trading each other for about a 1,000 years.

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:21.000 They were trading into into the Middle East, So there were.

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:33.000 There was slave trading going on. in Africa for at least a 1,000 years at the slaves are being shipped into the Middle East across the Sahara.

00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:42.000 So what's the difference? Is there? a difference between that slave trade and the the European slave trade to the America's?

00:23:42.000 --> 00:24:03.000 Is it? Yeah. What happened was the other thing that people forget is that the Venetians were trading slaves from the north of the port of the Black Sea to Constantinople, and Cairo the

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:24.000 Venetians were doing that, and there was also slave slave trading at Leon in France in the twelfth century there were places where they created unix, so they they sent slaves from the from North of the

00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:31.000 Black Sea to Leon, where they castrated them, and then Re sold them into the Middle East.

00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:43.000 So this slave trade and stuff people have been treating slaves ever since. In quotes the dawn of civilization actually happened.

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:52.000 Was the the Europeans opened up a new transatlantic market, so the Venetians invented enslaved slave.

00:24:52.000 --> 00:25:08.000 Using slaves to grow sugarcane and process sugar in the eyes of Crete in the Mediterranean, before anybody thought of doing that in the Caribbean The Venetians invented it, and then

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:14.000 they use the same model to to do it in places like Vidira and then across the Caribbean.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:22.000 But it was invented by Venetians, those civilized Venetians way before it ever happened anywhere else.

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.000 Yeah, I mean, you can go back, you know, 5,000 years.

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:35.000 And they were just like I mean these really That's what i'm saying. i'm sorry it's not it's not really referring to what what i'm really saying is what what what i'm

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:42.000 trying to get to is. there is a collective mindset, you know, irrespective of the hierarchy.

00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:54.000 With him this mindset. That is a collective mindset, you know, that drives an entire society, a civilization to act in certain ways to where slave trade is normalized.

00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:00.000 The exploitation of other cultures is normalized. War is normalized, right?

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:06.000 So. So where? How? How does this mindset originate?

00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:19.000 How do you change it? How? what? What type of mindsets are more conducive to lead us into the future versus holding us back in the past?

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:26.000 Yeah, I mean the slavery collapsed when the Roman Empire collapsed in Western Europe.

00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:34.000 Yeah. but the only collection in Western Europe it was, it continued, in the more civilized Middle East.

00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:43.000 It was not without any interruption. What reintroduce the idea that slavery was a good thing in Europe was Renaissance.

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:49.000 It was the Italian Renaissance when they read, discovered ancient Greece and Rome.

00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:54.000 They thought they were more civilized because they had slaves.

00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:08.000 So it was the Renaissance thinkers, who introduced the idea that slavery was good back to Europe, because they thought one of the reasons why here it was backward was because they'd abandoned slavery when the Roman Empire

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:21.000 collapsed in about fifth century. Id so so the idea would never dive up in in the Middle East, or anywhere in the Islamic world.

00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:29.000 It got reintroduced to Europe by the renaissance of Renaissance, which we're all supposed to think was a great thing.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:41.000 Sorry we're not really we're talking about broader pictures. I mean basically, the European Powers got powerful militarily because they spent all their time fighting each other.

00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:50.000 They were fighting each other. They were not thinking about anyone else, but they got their military edge because the Portuguese for the Spaniards

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:59.000 Then then the Dutch for the Spaniards, and then then Louis the Fifteenth 14 try to conquer Europe.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:10.000 On behalf of Pope. So z Europeans find each other that created this arms, race it it, and then they applied it somewhere else.

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:13.000 But it was from them fighting each other and hating each other.

00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:21.000 They all develop. So so, then, Europe is kind of a kettle, where, where?

00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:25.000 That ended up boiling into and then spilling out, and then I applied it in other places.

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:32.000 But but it evolved in the competition between between European powers.

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:44.000 I mean, you know, the same Years War that clouds refer to the 1618, 64, 8 cured, probably between 25 and 30% of everybody in the Central Europe.

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.000 It was a total nightmare, and the tree to your west.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:56.000 Failure, the at the end it created the legal framework which is now the legal framework for international law.

00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:07.000 So all of international law comes from the tree of west failure to stop the war that killed between 25 and 30% of everybody in Central Europe.

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:18.000 It's an interesting time to reflect on so this reformation because there was a belief system that had evolved after another woman.

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:24.000 Empire fell, and the theocracy of Christianity have been established as the Pope.

00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:38.000 Taking power, and this interesting system where you know the the the the pope and the hierarchy to the Catholic hierarchy couldn't marry meeting they couldn't have offspring meeting they

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:43.000 couldn't perpetuate bills you know to the next generation.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:51.000 So well all fell back to the church. men. A bishop or cardinal passed away. So that was the trace.

00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:54.000 That was an interesting way to perpetuate that power for us right?

00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:10.000 But then it then it's and it did well for for the beginning, because the the questions basically be able to call power by focusing on the base of pyramid economy on the poorest people, you know on on people

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:17.000 who who were this, this disenfranchised by the woman Empire at the time?

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:27.000 But then it it co-opted, and over time. It became just now a very sophisticated extraction scheme that thing compass the entire European continent.

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:40.000 So. So when Martin Luther came up, saying it breaking that spell because no one really knew how to engage this enormous power structure, but not to lose it.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:46.000 Pork that spell, you know he made presentations to the European royals.

00:30:46.000 --> 00:31:04.000 Who who not came to agree with him here's the book. So in and and with that freeing themselves from the church, because the Church was extracting all the royalties which should have been tax money it went instead to

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:19.000 the Church right because they were selling these forgiveness. So so in in that impact that the entire avenue generation of the individual States.

00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:25.000 And so by breaking that apart. But did the the the impressive thing here?

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:43.000 Is that an idea like that that they that I did Martin Luther Port Force, should shifted the mindset, create a paradigm shift which then we directed the behavior of a significant part of the European court and and also cause 200 years of catastrophic

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:54.000 religious warfare, right right? it was. It was disastrous, particularly for the German speaking lands and absolutely catastrophe.

00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:00.000 Yeah. So So part of it was the the printing press. right?

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:07.000 That was Yeah, the printing press is a really important thing, because that was the basis of the propaganda and the leaf laying.

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:24.000 And you know, looser came along just the point where printing with Google type got going, and the transition into Speaker into publishing being in vernacular languages instead of being in Latin.

00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:31.000 So it's a very complex you know this is a lot of depths to what was going on.

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:47.000 There's a kind of sense in which grab and and when grow are kind of they're concentrating on about 1750 onwards, and they're kind of missing a whole complex kind of weather stuff, it goes right back

00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:57.000 to the foundation of the universities in the thirteenth century, and the knowledge for that all came from Islamic Spain.

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:09.000 You know, the whole kickstarting of European recovery in the thirteenth century is all from knowledge that that is taken by translating from Arabic into Latin in Toledo.

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:17.000 In spite. and then that kick starts the the knowledge about Aristotle, which is the backbone of the foundation.

00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:22.000 The University of Paris, the University of Oxford and University Padua.

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:27.000 So. So teams start a re re reassertion, knowledge in Europe.

00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:41.000 It will come from Wasn't in Spain which then got persecuted mercilessly by the Spaniards, and they drove out about everybody the Jews and the and the Muslims

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:48.000 forcibly Spanish inquisition you know it's a mess.

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:59.000 It's it's a complicated mess it's very very complex and to a large extent these struggles were between.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:07.000 Yeah Protestants and Catholics, and and the absolute, just French monarchy trying to conquer all of Europe.

00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:12.000 Dutch pushing back against the spaniards I mean it's it's bizarrely complicated.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:18.000 It's a rich picture there's much more of it than what comes out of this book.

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:30.000 It's much, much deeper sorry to there's a sense in which we're kind of not talking about the book, but we're giving you know we're kind of kind of contextualizing a story that's much deeper I

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:41.000 think, Bill, Speak: Yeah. Sorry. I appreciate the the deeper story.

00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:54.000 The thing that struck me as Claus is original question which I think Graveman Wango, we're trying to poke it in this chapter.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:08.000 It's like ken would you like admit that there are people with that had more imaginative ways organizing their sociopolitical setups.

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:12.000 So for me the value of this book is in a question like that.

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:17.000 And then the question in the Klaus S, which I think comes up later in the book.

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:30.000 I mean chapter 4 or 5, or something in later in the book is when they start to like talk about all slavery on the west coast of the United States, California, in whatever.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:35.000 But but classes Question, I think, is one of the big takeaways.

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:38.000 You could take from this book, because it really is a question for today.

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:59.000 And I was just reminded, 2 or 3 years ago. I came across Albert Kamuz little as they call neither victims nor exchangeers, and ethics superior to murder. it's a very short little essay in which camus, after world war ii was pretty much

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:04.000 devastated like holy bowling. What kind of species are we?

00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:20.000 And his question was to just agree that we are not going to use organized murder as a way to get our in the world, which you know, as Trevor costs.

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:26.000 You pointed out. Basically, the reason you are in Europeans took over just they got.

00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:45.000 They were so much better fighting in war that the rest of the world who was also progressing into better ways of trying to like what the hell's going on here or unable to you know they just couldn't they couldn't couldn't resist

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:51.000 it. They think I basically all have brought but kamu is saying, Look, i'm not saying people aren't gonna murder each other.

00:36:51.000 --> 00:37:05.000 That's always gonna happen. I am saying no as a country. We are not going to That's we're going to choose not to use that as a method. So he's trying to make a moral argument here you know and he says and

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:10.000 if we get into a group, you know, group of nations and one of the nation says, Yeah, Well, we don't really believe.

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:16.000 Yeah, we're not gonna behave that way. He says Well, thank you Now we know exactly what you are capable of right.

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:22.000 There's no secret message here, and so we can take whatever defensive.

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:31.000 You know things we need to do, you know, but he has a I thought this is for me was really living here in the Us.

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:39.000 With all the crazy kind of talk, because she has a company, says a person who you cannot reason with it's a person to be feared.

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:50.000 Oh, yeah, The other thing you got, remember is the aristocrats, the aristocratic elites in India and in China.

00:37:50.000 --> 00:38:02.000 Chinese Emperor. These people aristocrats traditionally in since again, and it's just the daughter of Mesopotamia 5,000 years ago.

00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:07.000 It is a tradition that aristocrats are specialists in fighting war.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:19.000 That's what they do they mentioned that in this they make a distinction between that when in this chapter 4 or something, they I keep bringing that out cool right?

00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:29.000 Yeah, the point is that the it's It's quite mistaken to think that the Europeans were crueler.

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:34.000 This month, about the birth of the modern World, by C. A.

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:38.000 Bailey if we 78. this is like a G.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:43.000 But he basically said they were, yeah, crueler, They were just better.

00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:52.000 Yeah, because basically aristocrats by definition they that they fight war, and they punish people who don't obey them.

00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:58.000 I mean that's that's the traditional aristocratic elite they're like the math here. basically.

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:10.000 So so So the elites in places like India in China, that their value system to us is like the value system of the godfather in the in.

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.000 In, you know. man on Brando is the godfather in the movie?

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:24.000 Yes. but I still think for me the value of this book is basically racing. A question like Close said, When you actually cause you posted that Yeah.

00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:36.000 That lighter from Tolstoy which regardless of how one can read it, Tolstoy, I mean he was dead serious when he wrote those words about love.

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:43.000 It wasn't making stuff up, nor the Dalai Lama making stuff out. Nor is my the Zen teacher.

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:50.000 I had making stuff up When you know the one who said, Here, thoughts, what are they here?

00:39:50.000 --> 00:40:07.000 Show me one bring one to me you know they're trying to this is like for me, and maybe it's just where I am now in trying to make sense make our own sense of what's happening, and what we as a species, are doing on the

00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:25.000 planet is that the value of this book is just the more open and questioning, regardless of you know, the whatever blinders, or whatever proscribed for the authors have taken them, create their points.

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:28.000 I will say Peter, posted in the Mademoiselle Chat.

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:35.000 Oh, here is something, you know, 2 big reviews of the really negative reviews of the book, and it's and I looked at.

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:38.000 I started to read one, and I said, I am not gonna read them because I have not finished the book.

00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:45.000 I do not want to read the book with the ideas of these critics who say, Look, these these people could have opened me.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:59.000 It's like you're britannic and had a better, You know I didn't wanna read that I wanna read what these people have to say first, and then i'll read what you know the Critiques are but I still

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:07.000 think that the for me the value is in the the question calls us about how and I think it raises.

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:21.000 How are we, as you know nations in a world now created a nations things going to behave because there's no externalities for the economists.

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:29.000 They're saying we'll just pump it into the air sorry it's already full, so that's for me more.

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:44.000 I think this for me that's Why, the value of this although I do see, you know I have some critiques they make claims so

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:59.000 Yeah, I mean, I think I suppose 1 one of the things that kind of interests me there is that iconic critique of absolutist monarchy.

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:06.000 The French needed that, because they still had an absolute monarchy in 1750.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:12.000 I need. The irony is I mean actually, this is a brilliant pbs.

00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:20.000 I watched on on Pbs America Ken Burns is documentary about Benjamin.

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:38.000 Frankly, and it was very, very good, and of course Franklin spent a lot of time during diplomacy in France in the seventeenth seventies, and eighties, to get the French to keep the road the British at Bay so that

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:47.000 they could win their war of independence. but of course, when he was there, France will still.

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:51.000 It was Louis the Sixteenth, and it was still absolute monarchy.

00:42:51.000 --> 00:43:07.000 And the already is in the process of Benjamin Franklin was a very, very good diplomat, and he got the French to fund what was necessary for you, for U.S.A. to become independent of the bridge But by

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:18.000 accident. He also introduces the French the idea of a revolutionary State.

00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:22.000 We all these truths to be self-evident, etc.

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:30.000 Which destabilized France. France went bankrupt financing the the the independence of the U.S.A.

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:40.000 And his bankruptcy and collapse and the sewing of the ideas that Benjy and frankly brought caused the French Revolution. Yeah.

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:55.000 So. So the already is that the fast wasn't absolutely is monarchy when he was there, which is the kind of time when, when, when this chapter is about what was going on with France, but he accidentally led so the collapse, of

00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:04.000 the absolute monarchy in France and and the French Revolution, which I think is deeply ironic.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:16.000 Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. I posted the visionaries, theories of Pk: and So okay, culture in crisis.

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:23.000 And I was trying to get extract out of it but for some reason it doesn't let me copy paste.

00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:36.000 But what So okay, and basically argues is there are there's a sensitive materialistic culture which she you know thinks that the Western world has been in for the last 500 years.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:49.000 There's an ideational and spiritual culture. and then they send integral combining those 2, and he argues that there is a crisis of transition.

00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:54.000 No. when they sensate or ideational culture reaches a certain point of decline.

00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:59.000 Social and economic crisis mark the beginning of this transition to a new mentality.

00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:09.000 And he's arguing that it's established institutions. Try to maintain control and try to maintain order.

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:19.000 They're actually making it worse because they are they are perpetuating a status quo that has actually cost the calamity that we are in.

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:24.000 So that then short term results in totalitarianism.

00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:28.000 Fascist and Monaco see how could see, and so on.

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:34.000 Structures. which oftentimes and most often leads to.

00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:42.000 The society, disintegrating and and breaking apart, meaning leading towards evolutionary changes.

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:47.000 Now that create a lot of damage and and and and hardship.

00:45:47.000 --> 00:46:05.000 So So to to develop a positive transformational change process is really what we are looking for at this point, right? I mean the reason we're reading this book and and thinking about what happened in the past is how can you apply this to the moment

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:15.000 of now and into the future. Okay. And so, my no hypothesis here is it.

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:23.000 It requires a reformation, meaning a paradigm shift in the way that we understand the world in the way it works in the way it functions.

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:41.000 But in this is what toll stories argument was when you have a a mature sensate culture, then you have a an elite that is, that is, that who's fortunes are linked up with the

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:44.000 perpetuation of the system as it is right.

00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:54.000 So when you look at today, I mean, think about the shifts and changes required to maintain a living planet.

00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:08.000 That will have profound impacts on some, some, some very powerful people, and and money and finances and multinational power structures, corporations, and so on.

00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:19.000 So so so that's that is the challenge we're facing I think, and and and we have gone global, you know, for the first time, I mean before if the European slaughtered each other.

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:25.000 That was too bad, but it didn't really bother anybody in India or China right today.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:33.000 I mean. the conflict into Ukraine has immediate impacts on the food supply for Africa for the Middle East.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:47.000 Right profound profound consequences. So how not this this is, you know, sort of my my, my preoccupation is, how do you find levers?

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:54.000 You know that shift a mindset that shifts that paradigm that we're stuck in.

00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:09.000 To the point where it's an aha so when Martin Luther came up with his thesis and nail them on the church door, he found us receptive audience, because the time was right by the the leadership, the European

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:13.000 leadership was completely frustrated with the woman Catholic Church.

00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:26.000 They have been searching for way out of this without getting and golfed in a war, and and and finding a a peaceful transition that would make sense to them which worked out short to him.

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:49.000 Of course, then it Now this integrated long term into 30 years of war, but but the the now the idea to find a way to catalyze a mind shift now is is is Is the challenge. I think Yeah, no I agree?

00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:51.000 With you completely. and I mean, I think we are right.

00:48:51.000 --> 00:49:11.000 Deck. kind of a junk. True, now, because well, the the people who actually are, you know, in the status quo like here in Texas, the people who pump oil and gas, you know, have still not gotten that message You know from their studies

00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:17.000 and thermodynamics, in college about how it's all working out.

00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:25.000 Yeah, but their kids have even if they don't bring it up to the table at dinner, you know.

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:39.000 So things are really in a shifting mode here and So I think that's potentially really good.

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:44.000 Yeah, that's the lenders current thing right this is the cracks that's where the light comes in.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:50.000 Well, things are cracked, so it's possible you know sorry again.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:50:10.000 No, that's fine bill. I think the point you see if you if you look at the kind of history I think I have any culture at all, you can see that there are certain points where it has certain degrees of freedom usually caused by some kind of

00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:23.000 ecology called stress. I mean it's always if you look at the history of your race. Transitions even in evolutionary terms, are often associated with some kind of climatic shift.

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:30.000 So, for example, this is pretty strong evidence now that the robot Empire started to grow.

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:36.000 Because become more more powerful about second century Bc.

00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:41.000 Because the climate in the mediterranean paid agriculture more productive.

00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:44.000 So they're because of wealth, creation was all about agriculture.

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:59.000 There was a rising wealth enabled the Roman Empire to spread and become dominant in one's against the Carthaginians or whatnot, and then about 280.

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:15.000 The climate shifted back again. I had the agricultural productivity collapsed, but nobody knew what the hell was going on, and that was the design of stress that led to a lot of microphone of people out of central asia and

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:21.000 swarms of Huns coming from across the grassland to trying to get into the robot empire.

00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:30.000 So. in other words, there's always been a kind of connection between cultural shifts and climate change and also disease.

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:44.000 But previously nobody could understand what the hell was going on, and they tended to fall into believing that they needed to realign themselves with some kind of divine power or something.

00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:54.000 I mean we don't have a similar shift, I mean well, but we're also in the same boat, right?

00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:57.000 Oh, just gonna be a technological fix for the client thing.

00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:03.000 I just I could feel it. it's always happened you know i'm like, yeah, it's like yeah right seriously.

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:13.000 You're gonna spend 44 billion dollars to buy a social media company instead of 44 billion.

00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:20.000 Well, the trouble is no that's we're at it I mean we can say isn't it?

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.000 Who knows I don't feel but that's just effect the thing that's funny.

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:32.000 What class said was like in a way. Oh, maybe trouble was you but like no I class about the war in Ukraine right just broke everything apart.

00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:37.000 So We're in this like for me this is going to be very kind of crude superficial.

00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:44.000 But we're in this like neoclassical mindset is market driven individualistic.

00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:47.000 You know this sort of invisible hand although it's got a few strings.

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:53.000 Forget it. but it's the visible hand we all do our own thing for our own best interest. and it'll all be great.

00:52:53.000 --> 00:53:08.000 And so now We're completely interconnected in a way where we completely deny our interdependence, just as a you know as a Buddhist I'm like yeah you can't get away from it I mean at

00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:12.000 dinner. I try almost when I eat. I try to tell you a little bit of a grace to like the, you know.

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:15.000 Thousands of people have made it possible for me to have food on the plate.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:24.000 Yeah, that I don't know the biggest risk we call the moment is the there are 2, I mean R.

00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:32.000 Russia is a dying, totalitarian power, and this wall shows is dying because of totalitarian power.

00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:42.000 You really got to watch out far as China because China is still dominated by the Chinese comedy, which is as ruthless and vicious.

00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:51.000 That's the soviet communist party ever was it's a nasty last piece of work, and also well, and also they're Chinese.

00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:58.000 It's like, Yeah, we got along for you where if we could simulate.

00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:09.000 No, I think they I Well, in the culture there is this been around for a long, long, long, long time, I mean i'm in the United States like a like a baby nation.

00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:22.000 Here. Oh, yeah, That's right. as a nation yeah so they they have a different totally different, you know, to put go to the build their own space.

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:26.000 Station. Fuck, you guys, Thanks for the education at mit and Caltech.

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:42.000 We'll take it from here. you know that's how I was like so I think that's true but in least in the United States we are like the leadership here. we just got our heads in the sand.

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:48.000 Here perfect. I think we need more. We need more sand, cause more heads need want to be buried.

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:58.000 So would be illegal. If we were Chinese.

00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:02.000 This would not be allowed by many countries that would not be allowed.

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:11.000 No it wouldn't Well, maybe not like this, but we might be able to do it around it, that you know a tea table in my house.

00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:22.000 Yeah, as long as nobody's listening

00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:41.000 Society culture, you know, has a unique opportunity to rise beyond twice a buff, you know, and beyond this thing, because that is inherently a spirit here that is that has gotten buried, you know, that has gotten rolled underneath

00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:50.000 this corporate financial mass, that that that evolved to see, I would say after a week.

00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:59.000 And you know where this came where there was a system systematic dismantling of you most.

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:04.000 Well the state that have been so beneficial to so many people.

00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:13.000 And so the question is, do we have to collect this strength, you know, to to reincarnate?

00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:23.000 What do you original idea here was all about, because the entire world is looking for a beacon right to to to follow.

00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:27.000 And we have lost it right. I mean, we have chess.

00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:30.000 So. So right now, with this engagement into Ukraine.

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:37.000 That that that really is. You know the kind of of leadership that that the world expects from us.

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:41.000 But we have failed in so many on so many occasions.

00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:43.000 When you think Syria, you are honest. Oh, my God!

00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:55.000 You know how much i'm gonna mess with me Oh, not I mean, not as a citizens, but the comp the corporations that are running under the American flag.

00:56:55.000 --> 00:57:04.000 But the messed I have made in South America I mean the British people themselves didn't have anything to do with colonialism.

00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:16.000 That was done by the companies that were the the what was it called taken into the public sector after 1857?

00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:20.000 Before that it was entirely a prime enterprise, but it did.

00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:32.000 Yet taken over by the State. You know Queen Victoria was the endpress of India, only after about 1870, have this merging.

00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:50.000 But but there was a I mean, we have allowed this corruption to end our society to where you know, these these entities now have more power than the State, and we are collectively apparently unable at now do we

00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:58.000 constitute the strength of the State, take control, and to start raining this in again.

00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:03.000 No, and and so and again there's this mindset shift now, how do you enter?

00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:11.000 Where are the leverage points into system that you can pull on to shift it into a different track?

00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:15.000 Yeah, no. I think living living in Texas. Yeah, those are.

00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:21.000 Those are the questions in here in Texas The thing that is mostly concerns we living in Texas.

00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:29.000 It's not that there aren't you know liberal and progressive people here

00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:39.000 Many people don't vote so by that pack they have basically have decided for themselves.

00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:49.000 The Government can do whatever it wants, cause I am going to be okay, and that only works until all of a sudden they're not okay.

00:58:49.000 --> 00:59:13.000 But here in America I would say at least, i'm on the white folk most are pretty much okay with the unequal distribution of healthcare and wealth, because they keep electing people who don't change it or

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:18.000 staying away from the polls so it's like I you know that's right.

00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:33.000 When people say we're gonna have to really start constituting some distributed autonomous outside, Go, you know, separate from government. But this is why it's for me a little odd, because I think at one level we have to leverage

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:41.000 everything we know about global governance. Yeah, I mean the Chinese, Z. Gen.

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:54.000 Thing is demonstrated. very, very well. the power of corporations is an illusion, and if a powerful state steps in and slaps them down, that's it.

00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:59.000 Hey? lose a trillion dollars of value overnight they're not as powerful as they pretend they are.

00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:08.000 Unfortunately it's only the Chinese at the moment so i've got the will to exert that power over them.

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:17.000 So is it that what check the 2 is about this little discussion between the indigenous Americans about the French is like you people that got you got all this private property you're collecting all this shit.

01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:27.000 You got people starving in the street corner and that's not happening here, you know, if it's snowing outside it's below 0, you know people are intense.

01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:30.000 They're not like freezing to death on the street.

01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:34.000 So What is what is with you people that does it look civilized at all?

01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:41.000 Hmm. Well, I mean I I I know a guy He's dead now, but I knew a very interesting guy.

01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:50.000 I was in Afghanistan, very distinguished at family from Afghanistan. he, when he just did the U.S.A.

01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:59.000 In 1970 S. he visited somebody, a friend of his who was in America.

01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:15.000 It was in hospital, and he went to visit him in hospital and he noticed that the the bed had at somebody's name on, on, on, on, the on the on on the sof board of the back and he said well what Why, is there

01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:23.000 somebody's name on this bed, and he the guy in the bed explained to him.

01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:27.000 It was because it been funded by this guy who was a philanthropist.

01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:34.000 The Afghan was so disgusted to an Afghan that was so barbaric.

01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:45.000 I mean talk about an indigenous critique we're talking about a modern Afghan in the 1,900 seventys who looked at that and thought that is disgusting because the only real

01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:50.000 philanthropy is secret charity that is not philanthropy.

01:01:50.000 --> 01:02:06.000 That is somebody buying something he thought that was out of barbarous. So there's there's an indigenous critique. if you want one from a in the 19 seventies Oh, yeah, yeah, but that's also comes

01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:15.000 from yeah, Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I was born in 1949 in Germany.

01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:20.000 And it's a little boy my my parents operated the restaurant.

01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:32.000 So they were working in the evening, and at the time, you know that there was only like one or 2 television channels in Germany, and the Allies made determines.

01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:37.000 Run the video clips from the default and the extermination camps.

01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:41.000 So I remember it's like 3 4 or 5 year old boy.

01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:50.000 I was sitting there in the evening, watching back and wide films, and if not these films, the most incredible things I mean incomprehensible slaughter.

01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:55.000 You know scenarios There they totally traumatized me and

01:02:55.000 --> 01:03:03.000 So then then, and then you couldn't talk about it right because my my parents were like I mean there no circumstances can just be.

01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:11.000 Your conversation. we get really aggressive and i'm asking questions, and so in general, they have all generation.

01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:19.000 There was either in denial, you know it didn't happen or it's just exaggerated or we with.

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:34.000 And so I spent a lot of time, you know, thinking about how this is even possible that all these people around me here, you know where Where?

01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:38.000 Obviously engaged passively or actively in doing this.

01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:43.000 And then I have some really uncomfortable learning from my own family.

01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:47.000 You know, my grandfather, and so on. Hardware stuff ended up.

01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:51.000 So I went. I came across this this video clip from Bonover.

01:03:51.000 --> 01:04:00.000 I just posted it now. Bond, of course, was the past year was This conclusion really was because he pondered forever.

01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:14.000 How can these of the people now all of a sudden, soul, stones into Jewish shops rat out their neighbors, who situation, you know, and and participate in this insanity?

01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:19.000 So So he came to the conclusion that it's not malice.

01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:24.000 You have to be very, very bad. it's stupidity You have to worry about now.

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:28.000 Stupidity is, I mean the way Francis may be a little controversial.

01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:35.000 But what it basically means. I think what what is referring to are people who have lost

01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:44.000 The ability of independent thought. now, who who have surrendered their their, their, their their independence, thinking

01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:51.000 And there is a number of reasons that you see it in Russia right now, how they're stamping out any kind of descent and force, you know.

01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:56.000 Collective thinking as as income, cool and as it may be.

01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:05.000 And And so, Steve, the challenge we have right now. here is that what Russia does before the force? right?

01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:09.000 I mean pulling people off the street and stole your impression.

01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:16.000 For 15 years. We are doing with an amazingly sophisticated publicaganda network. That's just as sufficient.

01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:24.000 It's just it's efficient I mean it is incredible how public sentiment can be contacted and manipulated with this propaganda.

01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:29.000 That that is that is put out there. And so so we are.

01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:46.000 We are basically in an information war, we're in in a in in a fight over who controls the public discourse, and and on 2 that can be resolved in in some form of shape.

01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:53.000 We will continue to twift, you know, aimlessly into from one mess into the next.

01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:59.000 Yeah, you know this just my wife is Jewish and

01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:07.000 We started watching Simon Shama as a kid of the Jews 5 part series and Pbs.

01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:15.000 Or I don't know sign in is that prime she bought the book, but decided maybe it would be easier to you know It's pretty thick, anyway.

01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:26.000 Super interesting. But what he says in the beginning of this thing about the reason the Jews have been able to move all over the world, and basically be nomadic like that is that they didn't really need to bring a temple.

01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:33.000 All they needed to bring was a book yep, absolutely a book and it's Comment commentaries right?

01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:39.000 So, and he was making a point about the United States which is something that we have lost.

01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:54.000 I feel on from what calls from what you're saying so this is a country that is not was founded on an idea, not on a religion, not on the territory, not on these other things that have defined you know nations, like a you know

01:06:54.000 --> 01:07:03.000 agricultural region, or it was founded on an idea that's written down in our you know declaration and in the Constitution.

01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:13.000 And you know, as a nation found that on an idea and if they found it on laws, not on. So that's what made it different than many other.

01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:24.000 You know, different. The monitors are different than basically land owners, and you know the Empire is of the the past which you know, the Ottoman Empire only ended in 19, but 18.

01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:29.000 So not so long ago. So this is in a way the challenge.

01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:34.000 We are, because I think, in we're not I feel it in America.

01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:42.000 This we are not reminded about what this nation is founded, I mean.

01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:46.000 I had my own breakfast today, but very conservative Republican.

01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:54.000 Send me a religious that Christianity lists religious message via his formal email.

01:07:54.000 --> 01:08:00.000 On the Easter they broke right back to the Toller was completely inappropriate.

01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:09.000 No. And I said once, you stand up, you know for you to use your official email for this kind of message.

01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:13.000 It's just put that's yeah out of that .

01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:20.000 Conversation with people, said, Oh, you know Well, this is a Christian nation. I said, no, it's a secular nation.

01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:26.000 I I I got a class after class took set.

01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:36.000 Put up that a letter about from Tolstoy to to an Indian newspaper, and and the introduction to it by Gandhi.

01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:53.000 It prompted me to read a biography of candy that was publishing 2010, And actually, I have to say you talk about stupidity, but it's quite embarrassing because it turns out that

01:08:53.000 --> 01:09:00.000 gandhi, so I don't hitler was morally no different to the British Empire.

01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:04.000 He liked him because he was a vegetarian. He was kind to add.

01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:19.000 You wrote a letter to him, talking about his, how he in being his friend in 1,940, when the Germans were bombing the share of the cities in in Britain, trying to conquer Britain and on the

01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:25.000 other side. Adolf Hitler had a meeting with Lord Halifax.

01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:34.000 The Foreign Secretary, and he said to him, This guy can be all you gotta do to solve that out is shooting.

01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:43.000 So Gandhi was saying. there was no difference between the British Empire and the dances, and and Hitler was turning the British.

01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:48.000 All you gotta do is saw out that guy is to shoot him and shoot other members of the Congress pie.

01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:56.000 Now that looks pretty down stupid to me, by the way, and that was Gandhi.

01:09:56.000 --> 01:10:00.000 All I can say is my ripe young age here.

01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:11.000 So i'm on the human my wife reminds me that was a really stupid thing to just sit.

01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:22.000 Yeah, my wife frequently reminds me of the stupid things I say as well, but I understand stupid man.

01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:24.000 I think it's good. Yeah, we need to do it for ourselves.

01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:39.000 Right off i've told you but that's well during the trip, and truck the whole thing my wife after Trump was elected, you know she looks at me and she goes don't take it Personally, i'm done

01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:44.000 with i'm done with white men

01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:52.000 Yeah, , and well, I don't know if like you where you live.

01:10:52.000 --> 01:11:03.000 But there's you know there's a ton of more flagrant anti-semitism here in Central Texas, you know. but it's quite scary.

01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:08.000 Yeah, that that the how anti-service U.S.A.

01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:15.000 Was before before the Second World War, There were quotes to stop Jewish.

01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:33.000 Too many Jewish people go to college I know well, and it still is a little. It's still there's quite a bit of it, because

01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:56.000 I don't know . and human says a species just I read a philosopher said one of the great attributes of homo sapiens is non genetic learning, which means a child does not have to

01:11:56.000 --> 01:12:07.000 behave like parents, because you could learn something different yeah this is all true, there's hope for us yet.

01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:12.000 Now

01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:17.000 Yeah, I mean I mean, history is fascinating. I I love it.

01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:30.000 But I I say one of the things I think is really interesting is this question of the fact that there are moments where a culture can come to go a shift, but they like windows that open.

01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:43.000 And if you don't do the right. thing at the right time, it goes like that, and it shuts again. and the culture can get stuck for hundreds of years. I mean it's quite, quite disturbing.

01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:48.000 So this is something very personal. I have to share with you, because that just struck a bell.

01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:53.000 I was just talking with someone before before lunch here, and this thing came up.

01:12:53.000 --> 01:13:05.000 But years ago I was in a particularly tough part of my life, and a good friend of mine was talking about you know, seeing it therapist, and he just said to me, he said, bill, there's a door open for you right now but it won't

01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:13.000 be open forever. Yeah. And and I took his advice, and it was, you know, they wonderful thing.

01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:28.000 I did. but I feel that's true here, and for those of us that are involved in the bigger open global mind, there is a possibility that there's a door open there.

01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:37.000 Now, because we're becoming more authentic or less guard, less defended in some barrier and interactions.

01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:46.000 But it also will not remain open forever. There are certain people trying to actively close it.

01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:48.000 Well, and this book by daily I don't know if you read it.

01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:55.000 I learned so much about this. so the birth of the modern world, 1780, and 1914.

01:13:55.000 --> 01:14:07.000 So you know all about this, Trevor you from but this just it told me, and I've had this insight that we are in a similar position, that the world was in in the 1820 S and Thirtys.

01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:20.000 In terms of so much change, So many new different ideas like where people are thinking about, you know, autonomous decentralized computer run link something really different.

01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:27.000 It's happening all over the world. because we're connected but even in the 1,800 thirtys it was happening all over the world, even without a telegraph.

01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:39.000 So there is. There is a we're in a moment I mean in the seventeenth century.

01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:45.000 People like Newton Lightnets they they, they! they were writing letters to each other.

01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:53.000 It was known as the Republican letters, and what those guys could do just corresponding with each other.

01:14:53.000 --> 01:14:59.000 But there's also absolutely astonishing but also people need the other side of the world.

01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:08.000 We're also noodling. about these things you know wasn't like, just Oh, yeah, there's just a book of bright guys in Europe just like, no Yeah, sure.

01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:34.000 Yeah, So I just feel we're in a nexus. Now, that I find that spiral dynamics is is probably one of the best mind models to to to our the the the structure yeah, and it's it's

01:15:34.000 --> 01:15:39.000 not called levels. They have to purposefully avoid they're calling it colors.

01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:45.000 Call us mindset, describe the mindset or red, for example, you know.

01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:55.000 So Donald Trump is wet now, like Pennsylvania, and and the the orange is gonna be the bill gates. right?

01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:11.000 And then Queen is, you know, the Sarah club yeah and so so it's just just very, very roughly speaking, but they are mindsets, you know, and these mindsets create lenses, for which we see the world and they they

01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:19.000 they, they basically drive our our interaction with the system as such.

01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:26.000 So in any society you have, you know, people at different costs.

01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:36.000 Yeah, those are all levels. And then you have people in different places depending on, and you can have super highly intelligent people in red, blue, yellow anywhere.

01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:48.000 But this is not a matter of intelligence. it's a matter of mindset belief system, and so to order to change to shift a system it has to.

01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:59.000 It has to change every single color within the system. in in ways that are context specific to the individual.

01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:14.000 So and and and when you think about the company right, I mean, you have make a corporation that breaks down into different sectors finance marketing.

01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:25.000 Pr: You know operations. and what have you? And then, within each one of these sections you have levels of complexity to deal with.

01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:43.000 Now from now, driving a for cliff to organizing the the entire schedule. And And so so for each person you need to specify a set off of guidelines of guide posts that allow the individual to function

01:17:43.000 --> 01:17:51.000 within the system, and society like like like any any civilization, any culture, any government.

01:17:51.000 --> 01:17:59.000 We are a system that is, that is like infinitely more complex than even the company is.

01:17:59.000 --> 01:18:05.000 But we we have to figure somehow out how to run on the same base right?

01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:16.000 So you There has to be a governing set of of beliefs or mindsets that that allow this whole system to function.

01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:29.000 Now Toll Story argues that the only way to do this is empathy, and many other things right, argue that the only clue that unites us now is our intention.

01:18:29.000 --> 01:18:44.000 So we have, if if and and which which need to trust, if we, if we are in in a coke of of people who we trust the intentions, then oh, where we know the intentions we can trust them.

01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:52.000 And so, anyway, I mean, this is a little bit abstract here.

01:18:52.000 --> 01:19:14.000 But no, I I think, until until we have some kind of almost spiritual awakening to to sent the situation, we're facing now a global calamity breakdown of of global ecosystems that

01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:26.000 that require no specific actions to be taken which means something different for a farmer than they do for a trucker or construction worker now, or for an engineer or a politician.

01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:38.000 Until we have some kind of a unifying theory of of how to engage. Now we won't be able to cooperate.

01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:50.000 Yeah, Well, thank you. I agree with you. , is that the integrative can rule this stuff isn't it that sounds like ken Wilder, , , management management or common. What is called it?

01:19:50.000 --> 01:20:01.000 This this paper that I just posted here is, if a creator summary yeah.

01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:08.000 Yeah. have you seen frederick Lulu's reinventing organizations based on the same view? foundations?

01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:19.000 Yeah, I was just gonna say that I was just gonna say that the some couple of send teachers that i've had said the same thing can help Here's what has to change for.

01:20:19.000 --> 01:20:31.000 Everybody. it's you know

01:20:31.000 --> 01:20:35.000 You know what we can. I know what work I can do.

01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:44.000 I am in control of doing about me and I like what you said about intentions, or what's guiding us.

01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:48.000 You know. Hold on, my wife point out once when I get something I said, I didn't mean to do it.

01:20:48.000 --> 01:21:04.000 She goes I don't really care what you mean I care what you did your behavior final? Because that's really you can't divorce the 2. Oh, it's very familiar to my wife here

01:21:04.000 --> 01:21:10.000 Is that nice, sorry, Bill. No, no, I just think but it really it's action.

01:21:10.000 --> 01:21:19.000 Have you taken. It is what you know you can have .

01:21:19.000 --> 01:21:23.000 It's a brilliant principle I think I mentioned it in one of the matter.

01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:28.000 Most channels. This idea, the purpose of a system, is what it does.

01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:36.000 Exactly. Yeah, posse with it's like if you want to understand the system. Don't just look at what it says you gotta look at what it does.

01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:40.000 Well, you know it. So this is a .

01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:44.000 Software software architect, I know, for you as one of our closest friends, and he keeps talking of people.

01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:47.000 Say. Well, here's this program here's what it does he goes, I see what it does.

01:21:47.000 --> 01:21:56.000 But what's it for? Yeah, Yeah, But what I like about spiral dynamics?

01:21:56.000 --> 01:22:04.000 Is that it makes you think how to structure what you're talking about to the person you have talking with.

01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:10.000 Right. So, for example, I mean i'm in agriculture food systems, climate change, and so on.

01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:25.000 So they are, I mean I I talk with farmers for example, particularly commodity, cause I can't talk about time to change things that we flip out because to them climate change means government intervention, and regulations alright So if I talk to

01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:30.000 them about changing with the patterns that we need to adjust to and adapt to.

01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:35.000 Now I got it because they realize that yeah now it doesn't rain as often as it used to.

01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:39.000 But when it comes down it comes down hard and causes problems.

01:22:39.000 --> 01:22:54.000 So how do you deal with this? so so I'm you know we are putting the the issue with into the context that the Pharma experiences and doesn't feel threatened by now, on the contrary, fields Yeah, this is

01:22:54.000 --> 01:23:13.000 my topic. want to talk about it. So so to embed the information context, specific to the individual that we are, we are trying to help to understand, to educate and form

01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:20.000 If you hear from Pete in the last 2 min here don't have much to say.

01:23:20.000 --> 01:23:28.000 Yeah, it's been a men's club today. yeah Well, yeah we can't help it.

01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:32.000 You know I did choose to be our old white guy, you know.

01:23:32.000 --> 01:23:48.000 Here I am. actually Actually, there are some systems which you say actually, you did have a charge , , oh, yeah,

01:23:48.000 --> 01:23:54.000 It. It has been a really interesting conversation, and We went through a lot of stuff.

01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:59.000 It, We We all put a lot of stuff in the chat.

01:23:59.000 --> 01:24:07.000 So no notes in the Google Doc, which is fine. lots of cool stuff and and links in the chat.

01:24:07.000 --> 01:24:11.000 Good time to wrap. I think it's a perfect time to write.

01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:16.000 Yeah, thanks, guys. Thanks for your time. , good , be.

01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:35.000 Well, 2 weeks, 2 2 weeks, , i'll read that next chapter.