Ken Homer - Pete Kaminski - Wendy Elford - Marc-Antoine Parent
write here, right now
Totem animals, not just humans?
Furries / Fur Forever
Tyson Yunkaporta, echidnas
Sand Talk + Dawn of Everything
"the Davids" (cf. "the Daniels")
The Ministry for the Future
Wendy (and Pete), involved in "Yarns" - between Asia Pacific or mainly Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea as a region and Wales
Bayo Akomolafe - Nigerian indigenous wisdom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qWaWGHNvy0
Sand Talk, p. 114: "Yarning is more than just a story or conversation in Aboriginal culture—it is a structured cultural activity that is recognized even in research circles as a valid and rigorous methodology for knowledge production, inquiry, and transmission. It is a ritual that incorporates elements such as story, humor, gesture, and mimicry for consensus-building, meaning-making, and innovation. It references places and relationships and is highly contextualized in the local worldviews of those yarning."
"i'd love to understand more about the dialogue that happened between the Davids – it makes me deeply curious"
Utopia of Rules
"David Graeber had a lot of humor"
The Democracy Project - And there's always this theme of possibility and that's the overarching term right throughout this book … The notion that we have choice, we can create things, we can imagine things."
Dawn of Everything is very much taking issue with a particularly reducting/reductive tale of humanity's growth.
Human agency – "a huge, huge theme"
The First 5,000 Years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years
The Sociological Imagination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sociological_Imagination
Also autonomy as understood by Cornelius Castoriadis.
The commons of land vs. private property
Note the non-utopian aspect: No past society is held as ideal. But the diversity is of value.
Concept that our current reality is only one of many options
This idea that we could have a matriarchal society or an egalitarian society? Maybe this is a point that could have been made more strongly.
“There are plenty alternatives” TAPAs -> Anti-TINA (Pete loves that "anti" and "TINA" are anagrams)
also from Sand Talk, the first, the primal, the original sin for aboriginal people is putting yourself above the land or other people.
Post Apocalyptic Stress Syndrome (PASS) - Sand Talk via sand_talk [the libarynth]
While I was tracking this pattern, I yarned with Dr Larry Gross, chair of Native American Studies at the University of Redlands in California. An Anishinaabe man of the Minnesota Chippewa, Gross has published and spoken extensively on a theory he coined, called Post Apocalyptic Stress Syndrome (PASS): ‘When a culture experiences such a massive shock that it never fully recovers.’
‘The Europe that came out of the Black Death was not the same as the Europe that went in,’ Gross told me. He drew parallels between this event and the Indigenous experience of colonisation. ‘Both resulted in an intergenerational pandemic of post-traumatic stress disorder, suicide and widespread substance abuse.’
Paper by Dr Gross: http://www.shiftingborders.ku.edu/presentations/gross.html
"everyone has to eat"
"it's really difficult to be able to reweave things If humans have primacy"
When we centralize agency in humans and we view the world as non-living, we create a world that is dying off - slowly at first and then all at once…
Some quotes from Bayo Afokomlafe:
“There are 99 senses and making sense of the world is only one of those senses. Most of the world translates into nonsense and meaninglessness. It’s only human colonization that insists on the line of meaning and saying there’s a story and meaning for everything. And that is what allows us to colonize everything. It’s saying “it’s our story that counts. It’s our point of view that counts. The tree has no say.”
We are not the agents of change. The agents of change are not us. We try to centralize agency in us, and that’s, well, let me call it a mistake of humanity. We ask what can I do? When you centralize agency in human beings you are basically saying everything else is dead, just a resource to be used and we have to get our act together to make things happen.
My elders teach that the world is alive and active and if you know it is alive you sit down and shut up once in a while
The Enlightenment ideas of reason and enlightenment and rationality are being composted. We are seeing that we are part of nature and nature is part of us. We’re not superior after all.
Notice that our lives are subsidized by the invisible. Until we learn to live and meet the invisible, we will continue to reproduce the same paradigm that we are trying to escape..”
Reflections on Gender and Science, book by Evelyn Fox Keller
Joanna Macy Harvesting the Gifts of the Ancestors
"a songline is like a book"
Massive hyper-emergent social structures building on each other but not in ordered way.
It is a biological thing that the survivors of the wars are ?unable to reimagine other options.
It is hopeful that DoE shows there were many other options - we can recover these and regenerate these - see how this turns out in the end?
The issue of the disappearance of a space between states. (eg of Zomia)
BIG QUESTION: What drew you to read this book?
BIG QUESTION: How much of competition is ingrained in the human brain, and how much is something we learned?
What social orders are possible with the humanity we have? What is possible? How to make it possible?
BIG QUESTION: What is the future of artificial intelligence across the planet?
Jeff Conklin, conversational analysis
Practical Components of Reading
there's a wealth in the footnotes
Basic thesis of social agency: we can choose our social organization, and people always have. (And: deconstruct the dominant reducting thesis of historical development.)T
Running of experiments of social organization: is it still happening? (Probably outside state structures…)
The Art Of Thinking Together, book by William Isaacs
Rediscover the Transforming Power of Conversation book by Linda Ellinor and Glenna Gerrard
ask David Wengrow to visit our group (Ken loves this idea!)
discuss this early, and then invite him in later in our meetings
come up with (and write up!) questions we would like
start a book circle around Sand Talk, and do similar invite with Tyson Yunkaporta
What went well?
taking notes - we did a good job of taking notes
125% zoom on GDocs
we shared the GDocs screen
we talked at least a little about the book, lol – even Chapter 1!
the internalization and externalization of observations and actions
I'd like to explore why we think it's just humans who do that, because I think part of our evolution as humans is to realize that there might be other of identities that are not human from whom we could learn
What would we do differently next time?
Need to work on how to include a big, important story that doesn't fit into the Meeting Format; the idea is that this would fit into the wiki website
"almost unlimited multi-dimensionality of every aspect of life, and life's sense of those dimensionalities"
use a Parking Lot or Salon Seating (this would be a great topic for an additional but separate salon)
Would be nice to be able to add Timestamps into the notes, but in a way that doesn't feel disruptive to the text